Comments on: Social greetings and proxemics http://mindflock.com/2010/01/social-greetings-and-proxemics/ Social Game Artificial Intelligence Sat, 10 Mar 2012 01:27:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: zoombapup http://mindflock.com/2010/01/social-greetings-and-proxemics/comment-page-1/#comment-34 zoombapup Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:46:35 +0000 http://mindflock.com/?p=63#comment-34 You're completely right. The level of subtle non verbal communication during conversation and other similar interactions is huge. But we have to start taking these things into consideration. I think you hit on a key problem, in that for the most part we expect to have a two way discourse with language and NVC elements, yet we simply cannot model the verbal let alone the non verbal accurately.<br><br>My own viewpoint is that we would be better served trying to frame non verbal communication for non verbal interactions as the first step. So finding interactions that do not involve language and trying to simulate those as a means towards a fully verbal and non-verbal interaction in the longer term. You're completely right. The level of subtle non verbal communication during conversation and other similar interactions is huge. But we have to start taking these things into consideration. I think you hit on a key problem, in that for the most part we expect to have a two way discourse with language and NVC elements, yet we simply cannot model the verbal let alone the non verbal accurately.

My own viewpoint is that we would be better served trying to frame non verbal communication for non verbal interactions as the first step. So finding interactions that do not involve language and trying to simulate those as a means towards a fully verbal and non-verbal interaction in the longer term.

]]> By: TheBigCheese http://mindflock.com/2010/01/social-greetings-and-proxemics/comment-page-1/#comment-33 TheBigCheese Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:23:32 +0000 http://mindflock.com/?p=63#comment-33 An important point that we have to remember when modeling this kind of interaction is finding a way to add these kinds of interaction into the unevenly paced dialogue sequencing of video games. In my opinion, the greatest loss of immersion comes from the fact that while the player is trying to decide what response to give, the characters are simply standing, continuing the same action throughout. <br><br>Even if touch, proximity, and gaze create a much more life-like scene, we need to conquer this boundary to make interaction truly realistic. In real life, people constantly switch gazes, shift their weight, and make body gestures through a conversation. But problems begin to arise when the conversation is stopped, as there is no longer any stimulation to dictate what actions the character must take, resulting in a very stale experience.<br><br> I'm mainly referring to games such as Mass Effect, Fallout 3, and other RPG's where NPC/Player interaction is such a large focus of the game. For action games, where conversations are created to liven up the scenery, and don't require player input, the above isn't a concern.<br><br>Hopefully that makes sense, it's 2:30 AM over here and my brain is starting to lapse. An important point that we have to remember when modeling this kind of interaction is finding a way to add these kinds of interaction into the unevenly paced dialogue sequencing of video games. In my opinion, the greatest loss of immersion comes from the fact that while the player is trying to decide what response to give, the characters are simply standing, continuing the same action throughout.

Even if touch, proximity, and gaze create a much more life-like scene, we need to conquer this boundary to make interaction truly realistic. In real life, people constantly switch gazes, shift their weight, and make body gestures through a conversation. But problems begin to arise when the conversation is stopped, as there is no longer any stimulation to dictate what actions the character must take, resulting in a very stale experience.

I'm mainly referring to games such as Mass Effect, Fallout 3, and other RPG's where NPC/Player interaction is such a large focus of the game. For action games, where conversations are created to liven up the scenery, and don't require player input, the above isn't a concern.

Hopefully that makes sense, it's 2:30 AM over here and my brain is starting to lapse.

]]> By: zoombapup http://mindflock.com/2010/01/social-greetings-and-proxemics/comment-page-1/#comment-26 zoombapup Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:46:35 +0000 http://mindflock.com/?p=63#comment-26 You're completely right. The level of subtle non verbal communication during conversation and other similar interactions is huge. But we have to start taking these things into consideration. I think you hit on a key problem, in that for the most part we expect to have a two way discourse with language and NVC elements, yet we simply cannot model the verbal let alone the non verbal accurately.<br><br>My own viewpoint is that we would be better served trying to frame non verbal communication for non verbal interactions as the first step. So finding interactions that do not involve language and trying to simulate those as a means towards a fully verbal and non-verbal interaction in the longer term. You're completely right. The level of subtle non verbal communication during conversation and other similar interactions is huge. But we have to start taking these things into consideration. I think you hit on a key problem, in that for the most part we expect to have a two way discourse with language and NVC elements, yet we simply cannot model the verbal let alone the non verbal accurately.

My own viewpoint is that we would be better served trying to frame non verbal communication for non verbal interactions as the first step. So finding interactions that do not involve language and trying to simulate those as a means towards a fully verbal and non-verbal interaction in the longer term.

]]> By: TheBigCheese http://mindflock.com/2010/01/social-greetings-and-proxemics/comment-page-1/#comment-23 TheBigCheese Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:23:32 +0000 http://mindflock.com/?p=63#comment-23 An important point that we have to remember when modeling this kind of interaction is finding a way to add these kinds of interaction into the unevenly paced dialogue sequencing of video games. In my opinion, the greatest loss of immersion comes from the fact that while the player is trying to decide what response to give, the characters are simply standing, continuing the same action throughout. <br><br>Even if touch, proximity, and gaze create a much more life-like scene, we need to conquer this boundary to make interaction truly realistic. In real life, people constantly switch gazes, shift their weight, and make body gestures through a conversation. But problems begin to arise when the conversation is stopped, as there is no longer any stimulation to dictate what actions the character must take, resulting in a very stale experience.<br><br> I'm mainly referring to games such as Mass Effect, Fallout 3, and other RPG's where NPC/Player interaction is such a large focus of the game. For action games, where conversations are created to liven up the scenery, and don't require player input, the above isn't a concern.<br><br>Hopefully that makes sense, it's 2:30 AM over here and my brain is starting to lapse. An important point that we have to remember when modeling this kind of interaction is finding a way to add these kinds of interaction into the unevenly paced dialogue sequencing of video games. In my opinion, the greatest loss of immersion comes from the fact that while the player is trying to decide what response to give, the characters are simply standing, continuing the same action throughout.

Even if touch, proximity, and gaze create a much more life-like scene, we need to conquer this boundary to make interaction truly realistic. In real life, people constantly switch gazes, shift their weight, and make body gestures through a conversation. But problems begin to arise when the conversation is stopped, as there is no longer any stimulation to dictate what actions the character must take, resulting in a very stale experience.

I'm mainly referring to games such as Mass Effect, Fallout 3, and other RPG's where NPC/Player interaction is such a large focus of the game. For action games, where conversations are created to liven up the scenery, and don't require player input, the above isn't a concern.

Hopefully that makes sense, it's 2:30 AM over here and my brain is starting to lapse.

]]> By: zoombapup http://mindflock.com/2010/01/social-greetings-and-proxemics/comment-page-1/#comment-17 zoombapup Sat, 09 Jan 2010 11:37:02 +0000 http://mindflock.com/?p=63#comment-17 I agree that most programmers (and indeed some artists and animators) do not understand these things. I'm a relative newcomer to this as well (only been looking at it for a few years). It is definitely a complex thing to understand. But I think that there are enough patterns that we can begin to generate models of such behaviour for use in games.<br><br>Reading some fascinating books/papers right now that I'll try and summarize soon. I agree that most programmers (and indeed some artists and animators) do not understand these things. I'm a relative newcomer to this as well (only been looking at it for a few years). It is definitely a complex thing to understand. But I think that there are enough patterns that we can begin to generate models of such behaviour for use in games.

Reading some fascinating books/papers right now that I'll try and summarize soon.

]]> By: Wilbefast http://mindflock.com/2010/01/social-greetings-and-proxemics/comment-page-1/#comment-16 Wilbefast Sat, 09 Jan 2010 11:30:02 +0000 http://mindflock.com/?p=63#comment-16 It's funny that you mention that - the thing that surprises me constantly in France is "la bisse". In the South it's 3 times, alternating cheeks, and is done to women (even if it's the first time you've met), family, and really good friends. If not you *always* shake hands with men. On the other hand in Australia you'd probably just say "hi", with hand shaking much more of a formal, business-type gesture - it's a much less physical civilisation!<br><br>As for what you might call "procedural emotion", I'm not convinced that most game programmer understand *real* social interaction anyway - it's not like you study sociology when you're doing IT, especially as the emphasis at school and universities is becoming more and more about *training* for a specific job, and less and less about *education*. It's funny that you mention that – the thing that surprises me constantly in France is “la bisse”. In the South it's 3 times, alternating cheeks, and is done to women (even if it's the first time you've met), family, and really good friends. If not you *always* shake hands with men. On the other hand in Australia you'd probably just say “hi”, with hand shaking much more of a formal, business-type gesture – it's a much less physical civilisation!

As for what you might call “procedural emotion”, I'm not convinced that most game programmer understand *real* social interaction anyway – it's not like you study sociology when you're doing IT, especially as the emphasis at school and universities is becoming more and more about *training* for a specific job, and less and less about *education*.

]]> By: Timothy http://mindflock.com/2010/01/social-greetings-and-proxemics/comment-page-1/#comment-15 Timothy Wed, 06 Jan 2010 14:42:15 +0000 http://mindflock.com/?p=63#comment-15 You bring up many good points on how, as of right now, in the gaming industry, physical contact animations are something that is definitely not the easiest to do, and as well as the fact that we may not be able to create more 'human-like' characters without a deeper understanding of the human psyche. Every little thing, be it facial expressions, hand gestures, etc. has an impact on the ways we interpret reactions and ant the motives of other people. For example, if someone is laughing and the facial expression is there, but, the movement of the shoulders is not, it would seem incorrect and be labeled very poor animation and possibly inhuman. This takes into consideration posture and gaze as well. If something doesn't quite match what we consider it to be, it won't give the proper feel. <br><br>As you stated in this post, gaze and posture would be the most reasonable, and logical place to start first. Posture would give added insight into the agents underlying feelings, and a gaze with occasional glances directed away from another agent or character would portray nervousness, and very possibly worry and distress.<br><br>All of these factors, would indeed, in my opinion, make much more convincing and compelling characters would make a much more significant experience to the game, and potentially make much more personal experiences with the player. You bring up many good points on how, as of right now, in the gaming industry, physical contact animations are something that is definitely not the easiest to do, and as well as the fact that we may not be able to create more 'human-like' characters without a deeper understanding of the human psyche. Every little thing, be it facial expressions, hand gestures, etc. has an impact on the ways we interpret reactions and ant the motives of other people. For example, if someone is laughing and the facial expression is there, but, the movement of the shoulders is not, it would seem incorrect and be labeled very poor animation and possibly inhuman. This takes into consideration posture and gaze as well. If something doesn't quite match what we consider it to be, it won't give the proper feel.

As you stated in this post, gaze and posture would be the most reasonable, and logical place to start first. Posture would give added insight into the agents underlying feelings, and a gaze with occasional glances directed away from another agent or character would portray nervousness, and very possibly worry and distress.

All of these factors, would indeed, in my opinion, make much more convincing and compelling characters would make a much more significant experience to the game, and potentially make much more personal experiences with the player.

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